Curse

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

My playtesting in RA today suggests otherwise, though I suppose I'm not certain.

Unless you're referring specifically to the Scythe Attack skills, this is false: I am absolutely certain Drunken/Desperation Blow trigger (and did trigger in the previous event) on all struck enemies.

That is because of the wording. Drunken/desperation says "if this attack hits" which means it does not target 1 foe.

All sythe attacks had "insert name, deal +dmg to target foe and....." That means the skill itself only triggers on your target. Other foes get hit at the same time but for normal dmg and effect from the skill.

I think its good that has been changed but at the same time they reduced the range on the sythe.

Seems like an over nerfage of the dervish. I look at it from a monks perspective. Honestly they are not very scary. The only thing you have to worry about from a dervish is cripple. The attacks are so slow that even healing prayers resist them easily.

sindex · Sep 24, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Actually this big whopping nerf was thanks to all the folks who stated that (whining) “Devrish’s are to powerful, I can’t stand it and it’s just not fair” (whining). So for that A-net did what they thought, what the public wanted a downgrade to them. I hope they get a upgrade like the way assassins did (from the last balance skill update), when they realize it went a bit too far.

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by sindex

Actually this big whopping nerf was thanks to all the folks who stated that (whining) “Devrish’s are to powerful, I can’t stand it and it’s just not fair” (whining). So for that A-net did what they thought, what the public wanted a downgrade to them. I hope they get a upgrade like the way assassins did (from the last balance skill update), when they realize it went a bit too far.

By the time they buff them we'll have another chapter.

A lot of this stuff is common sense. If I could easily dodge the aoe enchantments at nearby range what the hell do you think is going to happen at adjacent range???

Changes need to be very small. Radical changes = won't be used.

Its really sad when you have trouble killing an NPC archer because of troll ungent.

sindex · Sep 24, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

What I’m trying to say part of it is the community fault, (A-net does listen people) for not understanding the devrish when they had the chance. Now look, some of the simple A.I. can kill me in one simple hit that would not happen, if I was another class (profession). I finally came to realize, as I finished the preview event how much more powerful a smite monk (even Rit’s) will be against a Devrish, that is just playing sad. I love this profession very much, (more then the others) but to see it go down the toilet is just wrong. I hope they do fix it before the next chapter I really do, but who knows (in truth I doubt they will).

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

I feel exactly the same you do about the dervish. During the pvp weekend it was a blast. I ran dervs in normal balanced builds for GvG. No dmo abuse. In a normal group they were powerful but not overpowered.

Hopefully it will changed for release.

Nickhimself · Sep 24, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

I think that you should stop comparing how powerful they were a month ago to how they are now. they're not even done yet.

forget what you played a month ago, that was the "hey this is what we're gonna bring out, we need you guys to see how broken they are" kind of preview. This is a "hey, check out Elona...pretty sweet, huh?" preview.

don't cry about them until the game is actually released.

Cloudpiercer · Sep 24, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

lol, all I have to say is that we brought it on ourselves. People just started whining about how powerful the Dervish was during the PVP weekend and Anet beat them into the ground with the nerf bat. I dont have a problem with the Scythe stuff.... but WTF with Mysticism? Its pretty much useless now. And why did they mess around with the Avatars, there was nothing wrong with them.

Hopefully they will fix some of this stuff before the game comes out.

actionjack · Sep 24, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

I didn't try the PvP yet.. nor too much before...

But isn't the function of Dervish suppose to be the hit-all-at-once type of attacker? Won't that mean that with out a proper build, they are not really suppose to be a spike damager? Which translate to them not all that great in a small number GvG or PvP situation (unless they come in a group...). So I think its not much of nerf as to make them not overpower....

Althought I still would like to see 1 arrow of energy degen per their enchantment.....

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickhimself

I think that you should stop comparing how powerful they were a month ago to how they are now. they're not even done yet.

forget what you played a month ago, that was the "hey this is what we're gonna bring out, we need you guys to see how broken they are" kind of preview. This is a "hey, check out Elona...pretty sweet, huh?" preview.

don't cry about them until the game is actually released.

This is a trend that Anet has. Being a beta tester of prophocies this isn't the first time its happened. Something is a little out of balanced and needs some slight tweaking. Instead they kill the entire thing before it even gets to release. After release its put on a shelf until Anet decides ok we need to buff this because this skill has been activated 0 times in pvp.

Compare the Sin of today to the Sin in the first preview event. There isn't much difference. The only real difference is some attack skills were moved to criticals so r/a couldn't use them better than a primary sin can. Some energy cost were tweaked. Recharge on many skills were increased insanely high. Dmg was lowered by at least 10-15 points on some skills. So what did they do last update? Decreased recharge times and increased dmg.

Dervish came out strong. People complained. They got nerfed to shit for the 2nd preview event. Game is released and other classes can do the job better. Why does this all sound so familiar?? Oh ya cause its the exact same thing that happened to sins.

Lady Lozza · Sep 24, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

I honestly don't see why people are complaining... Or rather I do. They played the pvp beta and owned everything and now they are upset they can't solo like crazy.

A Dervish, while a melee character, is not technically a tank. Furthermore to play them like a tank requires a lot more finess than to play a warrior as a tank. You can't just lump all your points into scyth mastery and expect to own everything. This is what 90% of the people this weekend have done. I was abused several times playing as a monk by a number of Dervishes who had 0, yes 0, healing skills in their bar. As the only monk in a team of 8, I simply can't be everywhere at once, can't do everything at once, and do not exist as everyone's personal healer.

/end rant

Seriously, yes the nerf was big, but I think a lot of people are simply smarting over how big it was rather than trying to adapt and realising that even in it's current form the dervish is a powerful profession.

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

I honestly don't see why people are complaining... Or rather I do. They played the pvp beta and owned everything and now they are upset they can't solo like crazy.

A Dervish, while a melee character, is not technically a tank. Furthermore to play them like a tank requires a lot more finess than to play a warrior as a tank. You can't just lump all your points into scyth mastery and expect to own everything. This is what 90% of the people this weekend have done. I was abused several times playing as a monk by a number of Dervishes who had 0, yes 0, healing skills in their bar. As the only monk in a team of 8, I simply can't be everywhere at once, can't do everything at once, and do not exist as everyone's personal healer.

/end rant

Seriously, yes the nerf was big, but I think a lot of people are simply smarting over how big it was rather than trying to adapt and realising that even in it's current form the dervish is a powerful profession.

I really don't think that is the case. EVERYONE knew they were too strong. If anyone said they should stay the same they are out of their minds. We all knew they would be nerfed. Go bang on the archer NPC for a while and tell me how powerful a dervish is. By the time you kill one the team will be back in their bases.

As for their "tanking" ability. They are designed to be surrounded my multiple foes in the front lines. Yet myst healing was reduced so much that it makes no difference and they have at max 70 AL vs physical dmg. So they are on the front lines, take huge dmg, and cannot even mitigate enough dmg to make a difference.

If you think that sins had it bad just wait. At least sins had a way of instantly shadow stepping out of the flay.

Lady Lozza · Sep 24, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

The dervish have access to a number of healing spells, which 90% of them aren't using - this is my point. In the pvp weekend, you could rely on mysticism alone to get a lot of the healing you need, now you can't. Instead of adapting, people complain. Of course thinking tactically isn't in craze at the moment, so taking something like Dust Cloak to help blind all those melee characters around you while you continue to deal damage is completely out of the question.

If you read the skills you will notice that a lot of spells do damage when the enchantment ends. Yet a goodly proportion of dervishes seem to want to keep their enchantments up! The "echantment" removing skills were a BONUS to the profession, allowing you to "force" the extra damage and conditions of the enchantment (ending) when you most needed or wanted it. But once again 90% of players don't understand this rather unique twist that Dervishes have.

ectospasm · Sep 24, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

just another damn example of why there should be separate code for skills in PVP from PVE.

not duplicate skills with different stats, just when you enter pvp you get the nerfed skill, when you enter pve you get the un-nerfed skill.

i thought nighfall was pve based more? so imo, the best of the two new professions is useful, but yet nerfed. thats the only thing wrong with this game. needs to be a line drawn between pvp & pve.

and the dervish needs more energy too. its just rediculously low even with the nerfed mysticysm
oh well we're all suffered the consequences of the rit and warrior nerfs might as well get used to it

Clord · Sep 24, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Dervish is still in beta balance.

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

The dervish have access to a number of healing spells, which 90% of them aren't using - this is my point. In the pvp weekend, you could rely on mysticism alone to get a lot of the healing you need, now you can't. Instead of adapting, people complain. Of course thinking tactically isn't in craze at the moment, so taking something like Dust Cloak to help blind all those melee characters around you while you continue to deal damage is completely out of the question.

Yes they have heals. Too bad they only have a 25 energy pool and their only source of energy comes from enchantments ending. You have to spend energy to get it back. The return will not be as much as you spent on the enchantment.

During the pvp event the dmo was godly because of cop and no other reason. Otherwise conditions and hexs would have rolled them in a minute or 2. They have 0 condition removal and only 1 skill that removed hexes and it was bugged. It would not remove the last hex if there was a stack. CoP was the backbone of that build and its nothing without it.

Yes this is beta. That's exactly the reason I made this post. Anet reads these. If everyone says, "ya I'm not getting rolled like I was last time and they die really easy so I like it." Anet will follow that.

Anet has a chance to make things right before the release. My faith that will happen??? Very little.

Paperfly · Sep 24, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

The only method of deep wound is elite.

Not quite. Wearying Strike basically requires you to take a necro secondary for Plague Touch, though (unless you're doing most of your damage via casting and just need the DW to finish opponents off).

...Or Avatar of Melandru or Featherfoot Grace, I guess.

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Not quite. Wearying Strike basically requires you to take a necro secondary for Plague Touch, though (unless you're doing most of your damage via casting and just need the DW to finish opponents off).

...Or Avatar of Melandru or Featherfoot Grace, I guess.

That acually makes wounding strike look weak. 5e 2 recharge.

I think just about every dervish will run cop. It still gives you energy and some removal.

Tark Alkerk · Sep 24, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

i would like to remind everyone that the dervish is still in beta form, and would they please not panick every five mins that the dervish is underpowered/overpowered, and also skills don't stay the same way forever, thats what updates are for.

Nightwish · Sep 24, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

The dervish have access to a number of healing spells, which 90% of them aren't using - this is my point. In the pvp weekend, you could rely on mysticism alone to get a lot of the healing you need, now you can't. Instead of adapting, people complain. Of course thinking tactically isn't in craze at the moment, so taking something like Dust Cloak to help blind all those melee characters around you while you continue to deal damage is completely out of the question.

If you read the skills you will notice that a lot of spells do damage when the enchantment ends. Yet a goodly proportion of dervishes seem to want to keep their enchantments up! The "echantment" removing skills were a BONUS to the profession, allowing you to "force" the extra damage and conditions of the enchantment (ending) when you most needed or wanted it. But once again 90% of players don't understand this rather unique twist that Dervishes have.

Who said anything about insufficient heals? Most of the complains here are regarding dervishes' capacity in pvp. Dust cloak helps blind melee for a meagre few seconds (4 at earth 11/12) every 20secs and it works on adjacent foes only (which you might get lucky to hit more than 1 melee char in pvp).

Yes, you are right, the enchant removing skills are a bonus to dervish but the effect radius of those enchants are reduced to adjacent. This might work in pve with the amount of mobs (& their AI) but in pvp, there is limited number opponents and human players are very far from being static.

Perth68 · Sep 24, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

well I justed tested out a derv in ra... and I am really annoyed at the moment because a base energy pool of 25 and melandru avatar costing 25 means if I die once I can no longer use my elite skill. = / (death penalty takes energy pool below 25

)